Peter 0:00

That was the closest I've been to potentially dying. It wasn't just the hypothermia, it was also the rock fall. It was just mind boggling. There were rocks, the size of rugby balls tumbling down randomly from above and bouncing off other rocks and sparking and ricocheting off everywhere. It was random whether or not we were gonna get hit as we were descending.

Speaker 0:26

Kiro and welcome to the Tramping Life, a podcast about hiking in outro New Zealand, or as we call it here, tramping. I'm jt, and in each episode I chat with people who share passion for exploring this incredible country. We'll hear about the tracks they love, the huts they return to, the lessons they've learned, and what keeps them heading back into the bush.

Jonty 0:46

My guest today is Peter Laurenson, a self-proclaimed, occasional climber photographer, editor, and outdoor writer. He's the author of Occasional Climber, Khumbu: Gateway to Mount Everest, and recently Aotearoa Light: Moments of wonder and realisation in New Zealand wilderness. Each contains thoughtful words and stunning photography. I'm delighted to welcome him to the podcast. So let's start at the beginning. Where did you grow up and what are your earliest memories of being outdoors?

Peter 1:07

I grew up in new Plymouth but ironically never climbed Taranaki Maunga until age 33, after I left New Plymouth. I had very much an urban life in my early days.

Jonty 1:18

Do you remember your first tramp and how did that go?

Peter 1:21

Yeah, I do actually. It was inspired by a friend's father. He took Richard and me up on a tramp to Tahurangi Lodge on then known as Mount Egmont. I was about nine years old. I remember it being very cold and claggy. We had a shower at the lodge before descending and it wasn't at that time enough to inspire me to get into tramping.

Jonty 1:41

Obviously at some point later on in your life, you did get back into tramping. So what kind of inspired that move and presumably it was more successful second time around?

Peter 1:48

I had the odd brief encounter with tramping as I grew up through my teens, but actually the first trip to Khumbu when I was on my OE in April 1988 was the moment. Since then I've had another seven trips there and a book has followed, as you mentioned. So that was what really made me consciously aware that being in the mountains was a real thing for me.

Jonty 2:10

After hiking in the Himalaya, how did you find tramping Back in New Zealand?

Peter 2:14

Really fantastic. By then my mind was fully tuned to getting into the mountains. I was a late starter. I went overseas when I was 27 and had five years living over there. So didn't get back to New Zealand until my early thirties. Since then I've had so many trips and I've loved my time on places like the volcanoes - Taranaki, Ruapehu, Ngauruhoe and Tongariro. That's always been a wonderful thing for me and that's where I got into climbing to start with when I joined the Alpine Club and did the Alpine instruction course in 2002.

Jonty 2:46

So I was gonna ask your gateway into when you got back. was that through the Alpine Club or through Tramping clubs, or do you do solo trips as well?

Peter 2:52

Yeah. The Alpine Club's been the main stimulus, but I suppose another opportunity that presented itself for me was through my career when I got back to New Zealand, I joined the then New Zealand Tourism Board senior exec. And one of the perks of being in that organization is that you get lots of industry famils. And I got a few nice trips into some of the great walks through being a member of the senior exec. So that happened and I started to make a bit more of an effort to do things as well. By then I'd had my first son, Ben, and so he became extra weight in the backpack on trips like up to Tongariro Crossing, that sort of trip. But yeah, it was really since I joined the Alpine Club that things really got underway.

Jonty 3:35

I just interested in terms of your role on the tourism board and then how you've seen that develop, I guess over the last 20 years. Tourism's really boomed in New Zealand and the back country as a real attraction for people. So was that something that was, the strategy back then and as it may be being too successful?

Peter 3:52

Oh, it's a controversial question, that one, and it still remains controversial given the approach that the current government seems to have taken which is a throwback really to volume at all costs and don't worry about anything else. When I joined NZTB, we had this goal of 3 million by the year 2000. So it was quite volume oriented too, although we did have strategies around trying to encourage regional and seasonal spread, and I'm sure that's still a part of the New Zealand Tourism Board's strategy today. But yeah, the numbers, it's a double-edged sword, isn't it? More internationals coming here and spending a lot of money. But if you're a local and you go into the hills to get away from the crowds it can work against you.

Jonty 4:35

Yeah, I'm not sure what the solution is, but there is a lot of places to explore in New Zealand, so hopefully there'll always be a few secret places, but I guess it's getting a bit harder these days.

Peter 4:43

Oh, absolutely. There are still many places that international tourists don’t know about or don't really have enough time in the country to be able to reach. And I hope that always remains the case. Given the ruggedness of our landscapes, it probably will always be the case.

Jonty 4:59

I'm just thinking about all your trips to the Himalaya, and they would've experienced that sooner in terms of the impact of tourism, particularly in the trekking areas. But I guess there, there wasn't a lot before the tourists in terms of, fairly basic agricultural and subsistence lifestyle. So maybe they're more welcoming perhaps towards the tourists because it's so important to their economy.

Peter 5:20

Absolutely. I started going to Khumbu, which is the area to the south of Mount Everest in Nepal, in 1988. And back then even climbing was a relatively small contributor to the economy. This was pre guided climbs of Mount Everest. So you were talking about pretty small numbers. And when I went there in 1988 it was incredibly cheap. And, even though it was the gateway to Mount Everest, not that many people were going. And so the experience was, I would say, more authentic back then, more basic. But that's something that I particularly did enjoy. In my book, Khumbu, that's one of the strands that I write about. Actually, there's a massive amount of change that's happened in the 30-plus years that I have been going there. One of them is the impact of tourism. Another is climate change that's manifest itself in Khumbu, just like all other mountain regions, even if it is the highest on earth. So yeah, it's been fascinating. And there are some aspects of the changes that, I must confess, I enjoy. There's more comfort up there now. The food is more diverse. More locals speak English. It becomes easier to get your way around. But also the authenticity has been diluted with westernization and modernization. A good example is when I was first there in 1988, every local that I met on the trail was spinning their prayer wheels and it was a very genuine interaction. Fast forward 30 years and most of the locals now have got a cell phone in their hands looking down at it and not saying namaste anymore. It's not a criticism particularly of them. It's just the nature of the beast all over the world.

Jonty 6:55

Are you finding that it is keeping at least the young people in those regions rather than them moving to Katmandu for work?

Peter 7:02

No. One great thing about development and Hillary and his Himalayan Trust can take quite a lot of credit for it, is that education for the locals has improved dramatically. Also medical care, which gives them opportunities and choices. But the amount of employment in Khumbu is pretty limited still - basically, it's trekking and and guiding climbs. That's still the main opportunity. And if you do, say a business degree, there's very limited opportunity for you to develop a career staying in Khumbu. So plenty of people have left.

Jonty 7:34

Have you seen any firsthand instances of a kind of a backlash as over tourism particularly, I guess some things like the Every Space Camp Trek?

Peter 7:41

Yes. You see it in terms of waste management, litter and that sort of thing, although Khumbu is getting its act together and managing that much better these days. You see it in the attitude of the locals. The Sherpa people are really hospitable. They have a great sense of humour. They're very welcoming if you take the time to spend a bit of time with them, but I have noticed a kind of a familiarity breeds contempt aspect to being there more recently. There are more locals now that aren't as inclined to be immediately friendly and welcoming. Sometimes I see instances of frustration and anger that would've almost been unheard of when I was first in the region.

Jonty 8:20

And are you seeing the behavior of international visitors changing? is education helping or are there still some bad habits?

Peter 8:29

People are a bit more informed. And know to show some respect for the local culture. I tend to see frustration sometimes when you've got big group movements. Sometimes those can become a bit of a blight in some ways on the experience. But not always. That's a generalization that doesn't always hold.

Jonty 8:46

So returning back to New Zealand, you've obviously been busy since the turn of the century in terms of exploring the backcountry. What have been some of your most memorable trips?

Peter 8:54

I've had many fantastic tramps, and particularly since I met Sean Barnett about nine years ago and since then I was fortunate to have been invited on trips with him. We've done some rippers. We did a four day Ruahine circuit all around the tops. I can remember a seven day Kahurangi circuit, four days on the Lewis tops, a five day Richmond Range traverse, four days doing a Gunsite Saddle. trip in Nelson Lakes, five days Scott Creek to Greenstone, four days on the Ella Range. Sean was a genius at stringing together circuits and trips that spent lots of time on the tops. So I was fortunate to really benefit from all of that. And most recently, since I've moved here to Richmond with the intention of enjoying Kahurangi, Nelson Lakes and Richmond Forest Park particularly, I've been doing quite a bit of stuff here, which I'm really enjoying.

Jonty 9:45

So both yourself and Sean are incredible photographers. So was it competitive in terms of when you're on the same trip together and getting those great shots?

Peter 9:54

No, it wasn't. Firstly I'm honoured to be deemed in the same category as Sean, because as you say, he was one of New Zealand's foremost landscape and outdoor photographers and writers. We were kindred spirits in the hills. We never competed. We generally bounced off each other and shared each other's ideas. Both during the trip, and then afterwards when we got home and did our post-processing, we'd be sharing each other's shots and giving each other feedback. So yeah, it was a wonderful friendship for me, that's for sure.

Jonty 10:23

Yeah. Very lucky to have had that. Have you ever activated a PLB or come close to needing to do so?

Peter 10:30

No, I've never activated one. There've been a couple of times where it might've occurred. I've only ever had one real near miss. It was on a descent from Boys Glacier. We'd gone over Cinerama Col and coming down Boys Glacier. It was the shortest day of the year, so we didn't have that much daylight and we underestimated how long it was going to take us to get back to Ball shelter. And in fact, we were benighted and also a blizzard caught up with us some way above Tasman Glacier. We quickly realized we had to take shelter because rocks started flying all over the place coming from above. So we found a sheltered spot on the side of the Boys Glacier and hunkered down, but it was very cold. I think that's probably the closest I've been to getting hypothermic. We couldn't see anything and the blizzard was raging, but about 11 o'clock in the evening a full moon came out and it gave us a window. So we skitted down to Tasman Glassier and then started making our way towards Bull shelter. But we didn't find Garbage Gully. We kept going along the Tasman hoping to climb the moraine when we got close to Ball Shelter, which was a big mistake, because if you've ever been on a moraine in wet conditions, it's quite incredible. It was like trying to walk on wet concrete and it steepens up very much at the top of the rim before you get over. So we tried to get over and couldn't, so had to then go down again and hunker down on the Tasman until daylight. That was the closest I've been to potentially dying. It wasn't just the hypothermia, it was also the rockfall. It was just mind boggling. There were rocks, the size of rugby balls just tumbling down randomly from above and bouncing off other rocks and sparking and ricocheting off everywhere. It was random whether or not we were going to get hit as we were descending. So yeah, that was one of my nine lives.

Jonty 12:17

if I was a cat. Have you had any memorable wildlife encounters?

Peter 12:21

Yeah, all wildlife encounters are memorable. We've got some incredible species in our country. And some of them unfortunately are introduced, but they're still pretty incredible as well. When you see a Himalayan Thar or a Chamois, or even a deer up in the mountains, the way they move they're beautifully suited and adapted to that kind of terrain. It's just such a shame that they don't have a role in a healthy ecosystem here. But yeah I've enjoyed those encounters nevertheless, but also our native bird life is fantastic. You can't beat an inquisitive little Robin landing on your foot and checking out whether they can find a bug around. Kea, they're such a hilarious species. Sometimes frustrating. I've had them destroy a few things for me. But yeah, a lovely aspect of going to the hills and also for photography.

Jonty 13:07

Thinking back of all the huts and camp sites that you've stayed at over the years, which ones really stand out in the memory?

Peter 13:13

There are so many awesome spots out there, but, maybe the North Island huts stand out more for me because the North island doesn't tend to be as busy. I've been to some fantastic south island locations - the likes of Plateau Hut, Pioneer, Tasman Saddle, Brewster Hut. These are wonderful places, but they tend to get really busy. On the North Island, my favorites I think would be Whangaehu Hut on Ruapehu and Kime Hut on Fanthams Peak - one of the best places to get amazing sunset and sunrise photography.

Jonty 13:50

Now if anybody's picked up a copy of Back Country Magazine, they've probably seen your photography and it is pretty spectacular. So tell us a little bit about how you first got into photography.

Peter 14:02

Effectively, it was when I headed off for my OE back in January 1988. As a student before I started working, I had a happy snappy. But, I never gave any real serious attention to photography. But when I knew that I would be going overseas, I attended a photography night course at Wellington High School in 1987. This taught me the basics of using a manual camera, an SLR. And so I got myself my first SLR – a Chinon CP7m - not particularly flash, but the budget wouldn't allow anything better, but I was armed with that when I headed off overseas.

Jonty 14:39

And then have you got any tips for people wanting to take better photos whilst tramping.

Peter 14:43

Maybe my biggest tip would be go small and light. For me I've been using, in the last more than seven years, a Panasonic Lumix TZ220. Just recently I've had to replace that because it gave up the ghost. It isn't weatherproofed, so it actually lasted a lot better than it probably should have. I've replaced that with a Sony RX100VII. These are mirrorless digital cameras with fixed zoom lens with a good range. The RX100 has 124 to 200, which is ample range. But these cameras still have pretty good sensors, they take camera raw files and they allow you to shoot like you'd shoot an SLR digital through the lens view. That's really important, rather than just having a back of screen thing, especially in bright light. Also I shoot fully manual, spot meter, so I'm basically shooting in the same modus operandi as I would a digital SLR, but I've got just a little tiny thing, the size of a cigarette pack I can strap to my chest strap in front, which means I've got access to it all the time. So it means I don't miss action. I can shoot quickly and safely without holding m friends up. And with vastly less weight, my knees are a lot happier as well. A tiny camera also means you can take a very lightweight tripod and still be able to get really nice sharp dawn and dusk shots. So yeah, that would be one of the key suggestions I'd make to people going to the hills. Don't feel that you have to stick to a big bulky SLR to get really good publishable images these days. Another recommendation is to make sure that you still apply the basics. Retain control of shutter speed, F-stop, ISO and spot metering, and invest in the post processing of raw files as well. Because beyond composing the image, that's where a lot of the artistry in photography lies. Don't just delegate that to some smartphone or an AI app if you really want to fully enjoy the photographic journey.

Jonty 16:39

I was gonna ask you about that. What kind of post-production tools do you use?

Peter 16:42

I just use Photoshop, CS6, which is pretty dated now, but it was the last version of Photoshop that you could actually buy rather than have to hook into the monthly subscription. I'm chugging along on CS6 and it really does everything I need.

Jonty 16:56

If anybody's picked up one of Peter's books, what always sticks in my mind is these vast panoramic shots. I've rarely seen photos as good at taking in the whole landscape. They're very wide angle, wide screen shots of the landscape. Now are those single photos, or are you having to patch multiple photos together to get that kind of width and depth?

Peter 17:18

Yeah. Photo stitching. I'm a real fan of it as you've seen, because I do think that just the standard three by two format is too limiting sometimes to really capture the true scenic grandeur of our wilderness. I often take photos thate comprised of three or four landscape images or five to seven portrait images, and then I stitch them in Photoshop when I get home. And it's quite nice because it also means you can almost have a second photo shoot, because when you've got a really big file that covers a large piece of landscape you can then crop within that and single out three by two format images, or whatever you like. The key thing with CS6 is make sure that there's about a third overlap for each image, and that gives the software enough to work with to get nice seamless stitching. Going into the hills is capturing the raw material. You harvest all that and bring it home and then have lots of fun.

Jonty 18:11

Now your most recent book Aotearoa Light: Moments of wonder and realisation in New Zealand wilderness, can you tell us a little bit about the origins of that book and how it's being perceived?

Peter 18:20

Thinking back a bit, my first delving into writing really came about following my trips to the Himalaya. It just made such a big impact on me that I felt I needed to do something with the experiences and the images. I knew that just trying to publish photographs by themselves was near impossible. And that's what got me thinking about writing. Back in about 1997, I wrote a manuscript never to be published called Pilgrimages to the Roof of the World. That was a catalyst for me to get writing. And I really enjoyed it actually. I love the process of writing because it's so reflective. It makes you pause and think and you start connecting dots and finding out things you didn't know before when you're trying to fill gaps, so I love the process. Pilgrimages to the Roof of the World started me off and that followed with a website pilgrimages.co.nz, which no longer exists. But that also set me off thinking okay, I can do this for my Himalayan images, but it's the New Zealand stuff that's building up now. I created another website, which is now occasionalclimber.co.nz. And that's where a lot of my New Zealand stuff resides, then I got back to wanting to do something more with the Himalayan stuff. Having been to Khumbu, spanning a period of more than 30 years, and noticing all the changes that had occurred there; and also I'd taken my three boys each when they turned 15. That was a really fantastic strand in my story. I also developed a friendship with a Sherpa family who has kids similar age to my boys and that all folded into the experience as well. So it occurred to me that, actually, I did have a story to tell that was more distinctive and more personal perhaps than my first effort back with Pilgrimages to the Roof of the World. So that's where my book Khumbu came from. It was a wonderful experience to go through that. Then my mind turned to my New Zealand experiences and images. I wanted to do something with them. A few years had passed since Khumbu was released and I was pondering away about what could I say about the images that would be relevant to an audience, because there are so many fine New Zealand landscape photography books already out there. For me to join that genre, I had to bring something distinctive. The answer I came up with was to cover Aotearoa in a different way than from north to south, and to feature some of the lesser known places, only reachable by tramping and mountaineering. I did this by focusing on different landscapes, eight chapters ranging from coastline up to snow and ice. I also put a spotlight on the mostly short term self-interest-driven madness of still escalating human-induced climate change. The penny drop that perhaps I could use my photography and writing for good to constructively encourage others to think more deeply about what's going on and to take more personal responsibility to stop the madness. When you think about it, after all, we're each consumers, employees or employers, and we are voters; and many are investors too. So actually, individuals can make the essential difference. And as I research the subject, my resolve just intensified. It's been a fantastic and unfortunately disturbing journey.

Jonty 21:32

Just thinking about Khumbu, that came out in 2021. Have you been back to Nepal since it was published?

Peter 21:38

Yes. Actually the intention was that since I'd taken each of my boys to Khumbu I had to get my partner cathy there too. And in fact the plan was initially for my final chapter to be recounting when Cathy got there and met Pasang and Nima, who were really hanging out to meet her. So I thought that would be a good way to finish Khumbu. But COVID intervened. We actually had our tickets all booked and we were ready to go there in 2020. Basically, we postponed. Because of that, ironically COVID did offer a really poignant focus instead for the final chapter of Khumbu. But we did eventually get Cathy there in December 2023, and it was certainly worth the wait, especially her meeting with Nima. That was a really joyful tear jerker.

Jonty 22:24

Now, how did you get involved in editing FMCs Backcountry.

Peter 22:28

Really through Sean Barnett. I stepped into his very large boots to fill just over seven years ago. So Sean had been editor for 10 years when he decided he wanted a change and by then I knew him well. So I knew that was coming up. It was a contested position and I put my hat in the ring and was able to persuade FMC to pick me. And it's been a fantastic gig for me at the stage in my life; and considering the kind of interests that I now have it fits everything together really nicely.

Jonty 22:58

How much time does it take to produce each issue?

Peter 23:01

I haven't really tried to properly quantify. It's certainly not a fulltime job. Because I'm not in full-time work anymore, I've got plenty of flexibility to put in as much time as needed. So yeah, I don't know, maybe it's about a third of a year's work, a third to a half.

Jonty 23:19

And you've seen many changes over the seven years, I guess the format has remained the same. I remember seeing some survey results about whether it should be digital or in terms of people accessing that information.

Peter 23:29

Good question. The format’s essentially stayed as Sean left it, which was in very good heart when I took over the 72 page publication, full colour and all that. And it stayed that way right up until now. But financial pressures for FMC, and also the pressure that the digital world is putting on printed publications generally, there's been a decision late last year that from now on we're going to reduce the page numbers in back country from 72 to 64. That reduces cost. We're also going to only print three of the four each year, so the August edition will be digital only. So we are moving inexorably that way. Hopefully we can maintain a printed presence for some time to come, but we'll see.

Jonty 24:16

I hope so, because particularly in the in huts, it's one of the few. Until Vodafone came along it was one of the few places where you could really get away from everything. It was very much an analog world. And there's something about reading copy of Back Country in the hu that's quite quite a kind of unique experience.

Peter 24:32

Yeah, it is. It’s part of our backcountry fabric. And I know that the FMC exec appreciates that. But still, it's challenging times. We've just got to look for various ways ahead.

Jonty 24:44

I'd like to finish up by asking guests what's left on your tramping bucket list?

Peter 24:48

I've got plenty of unfinished business and there are numerous parts of this beautiful country that I still would like to reach. But as my third joint replacement looms closer and lower back issues niggle more persistently, I have also learned that it's best not to be too driven by specific objectives that can lead to disappointment, when actually the journeys are still wonderful, regardless of whether you reach the summit or not. It's all about the perspective you take. So for me, I only have one item on my bucket list, and that's to maintain the physical capacity to still be out there in the hills, loving it for many years.

Speaker 25:30

Thank you so much for listening to the Tramping life. If you've enjoyed today's episode, please follow the podcast in whatever app you use. Tell a friend about it and consider leaving a rating or a review. It really helps more people discover the show. you have any questions or feedback, I'd love to hear from you. Drop me an email at the tramping life, one word@gmail.com.