Marios: 0:00

I stopped in my tracks in a hoho, yellow eye. Penguin was on the track and it wasn't moving. It was almost like it didn't know I was there. I stopped and I just retreated and I stayed still. it was one of those timeless moments

Speaker: 0:21

Kiro and welcome to the Tramping Life, a podcast about hiking in New Zealand, or as we call it here, tramping. I'm jt, and in each episode I chat with people who share passion for exploring this incredible country. We'll hear about the tracks they love, the huts they return to, the lessons they've learned, and what keeps them heading back into the bush.

Jonty: 0:41

My guest today is Marius Vals Tramping guide and author Marius has spent decades exploring New Zealand's mountains, forests and coasts, and sharing that knowledge through guiding writing and photography. I'm delighted to welcome him to the podcast, Kira,

Marios: 0:54

oh ki, thanks very much for inviting me.

Jonty: 0:57

Can you tell us a little bit about some of your earliest memories of being outdoors?

Marios: 1:01

I grew up in suburbia in England, in Oxford, about an hour and a half west of London. We always went to Wales to visit my grandmother, and so some of my earliest memories were tramping around Snowdonia. I remember doing the Snowden horse shoe, in my teens. Not being able to see a thing, but being really exhilarated by being on a knife edge ridge up there. And then during school times we went up to the three peaks of Yorkshire with the school and did an 11 hour tramp there at Penny uh, worm side in Scarfe Pike. So I guess those were the seeds of being in the outdoors. But yeah, living in a really dense, populated place as southeast England was never really had the opportunity until after I graduated university. And then I spent several winters In the French Alps, skiing in the winter, but also did a few summer seasons. And and I think that was really the main seed for this is me. This is what I, this is where I want to be. And it was during that time in France that I met my Kiwi partner, and came out here with her in the late nineties. And really from day one when I got to New Zealand, I was like, yep, this is a country for me. And then I really got the bit between my teeth.

Jonty: 2:06

Do you remember your first multi-day tramp?

Marios: 2:08

Yeah, it would've been up on the cor Manal peninsula. We lived in AKA for a winter and then moved to, and it was at that time that I was. Totally enamored by the beautiful landscape but I didn't have really a lot of tramping experience, and I didn't have really a lot of gear either. I moved over here with literally a backpack and a pair of skis. And so I did a traverse of the Corman ranges a little bit towards the south. And it was a really eventful day. I was hitchhiking everywhere. We were too poor to even afford a car in those days. I hitchhiked and it got, took me four rides to get to the Wentworth Valley. The first was with a couple of young bros who were driving so fast. I was scared, witness, and I told them, oh, you've gotta, guys, you've gotta pull over. I need to get out of your car. Or Don, don't trust you're driving. So they left me on the roadside. The next woman picked me up was a woman who she had her 2-year-old daughter the dog and the cat. And she said the last time I left my husband, I left the camp. At this time I'm leaving him for good. And so she had a few stories to tell and then she took me to another junction where an old farmer dude picked me up. And it wasn't particularly conversational, but he took me to the edge of the Wentworth Valley and, the final ride was a local resident who was telling me about, this new lodge that had been built up there. And he was a bit disgruntled because the Riverstone lodges, as it was called, had. Taken all these river stones out of the river and altered the hydrology and causing his land to flood. Anyway, I went up and, started my tramp across the ranges. went to the Wentworth Falls, and it was a mixture of both tramping tracks and just ruffled four wheel drive routes over the ranges. Was really on the tops and there was quite a bit of nav to do. the maps didn't necessarily correlate with what the track network was. And I saw these couple of people and they were in really shiny shoes and their equipment absolutely immaculate. My first thought, which I didn't say, was like, oh, you are lost. anyway, they said Hi, and then they stopped me and said, excuse me, we're lost. And I was like yeah, I can get that. I understand. And I said, are you staying at this Riverstone Lodge? And they said, yep. I said, you need to pay attention.'cause the sun was going down and it was getting late and they obviously, they just had a little bottle of water and nothing on their backs. So I said, right, you need to go left. And the eyes just glazed over and I was like, no, you really need to concentrate on this. And that moment, this black Labrador dog came up and I was like, oh, that's really strange. I said, is this your dog? They said, no, it belongs to the lodge. I said, follow the dog and left them on their merry way. So anyway, I made it over the ranges. And and I still, I had my tent with me, but I bumped into this farmer and it was right on the back blocks on the edge of the Coman Forest Park. And he was like, oh, mate, come and just, I've got a little sleep out and come and. Can I sleep there? Sleep? It's a bit rough, but there's a mattress down by the hay and there's a couple of steaks. Here you go, mate. And away you go. So that was my first overnighter in, in New Zealand, that really settled for me the beautiful scenery, but also, the wonderful people that, that we have here. And how if you've got a backpack on your back you're just welcomed wherever you go.

Jonty: 5:05

Given how many tracks and well defined routes there are, that's an interesting kind of first choice.

Marios: 5:10

It stemmed from this idea that, I got pretty early on in the piece after moving here. obviously growing up in the uk, where there's centuries of habitation and, Oxford as well, being a literary place. There was literally a guidebook for the road that my parents lived on that I grew up on. and here I was in r Touro, New Zealand. Excited to go out and discover new places. I went into the local bookshop and, Asked for the guide to the local tramps or walks, and they said, no, sorry, we haven't got it. I said could you just order it in, please? And they said, no, sorry, you misunderstand. There isn't one. this is, 1999 and there's a whole region, there's not even a guidebook. So I thought I better write it. And that was how this whole, author career started off. doc were really good. They gave me a list of all the tracks, but it was very much a mission to then try and walk as many of them as possible. through the lens Of writing them down and taking photographs to put them into a book. So this Wentworth value was part of that greater project.

Jonty: 6:13

So that was the first book you published.

Marios: 6:15

Yeah. I guess the seed of the idea had been sewn in England that I really enjoyed writing and geography, was what my, degree was in and always have had an emotional response to beautiful landscapes. And obviously, moving to hardo in New Zealand was. just dream come true for me But I never really had the chance, before I got here to be able to write. and then when this idea came forth for, a regional guidebook, I did a correspondence course, which wasn't necessarily how to write, but it was more about how to market yourself. And through that, they led me into how to write a proposal But I figured, look, I had no track record, so I better come up with the goods before I actually tried to find a publisher. So that was where I got hold of doc, found all the tracks, and, I spent about six months, in my weekends off my day job, hiking around the cor Mantal Peninsula. Thinking about if I was gonna be, reading this book, what was it that I'd be wanting to know? So obviously the grade of the track and how to get to the start of it, what the interesting features would be, both in terms of the geology and the botany, the fauna, Maori history and European history. And take a few pretty photos along the way with a few contextual introductory chapters. So I got all that material together and then I realized that Reed Publishing were, the main outdoor hiking publishers in the country. And, sent'em off a proposal and within three weeks they got back to me and said, yeah, we're keen. And so it was like literally the first hit and it came up with a tick. So I knew I was on the right track.

Jonty: 7:47

Excellent. And I guess how many books have you published since then?

Marios: 7:50

Yeah, so half the day walks of the co mandel there, the first title was called, and I, I'd done my research and I realized that mark Pickering was really the tour to force of tramping guidebook. And, I didn't want to really, compete with. With 101 Great Tramps. But walks I felt was probably a bigger market as well. Everybody's going to Katmandu a Mack and getting lots of outdoor gear and wants to discover the, the places close by to where they live. Or if they were overseas visitors, they didn't necessarily have the time or the experience to get into the back country. So the walks were, the criteria was if you could go. Backwards and forwards in a day, then it could be in the book. And so that was the idea of this day walks concepts and day walks of the co. Mandel sold its first publishing run of three and a half thousand copies in six months. So Reed were like, yeah, we're gonna reprint and can you do some more? Bear of plenty. And Ola, uh, Northland were the next ones and they sold really well. And Peter Janssen, who was a publishing manager at the time at Reed, were like we're gonna cover the whole country here, Maria, and, get your skates on him. Do as much as you can. so I gave up the day job, bought a VW Combi and did a lap of the North island. Peter Trenton also said to me, oh, I've always had this idea. Marios a guidebook to the beaches of the North island will be really good. Do you wanna write it? You don't need to ask me twice for that one. So basically spent a year with my partner doing a clockwise loop of the north island, taking every road on the left, researching the book, but also doing these day walks, hikes, and, reed realized that they needed to get in there fast, so they commissioned a few other authors to do, some of the south island and a couple of other North Island regions. But I basically spent a year on the road doing as many walks as I could get in on the very limited budget that we had. And it was a fantastic introduction to the beauty of this country and really a sort of a dream come true to. Be able to, nibble at the edges of the national parks. but also to, start getting some experience about, being in the New Zealand back country and reading the weather and, Knowing your gear to take and, refining my map skills. There were still some reasonably tricky, rough tracks. But, it really gave me, I think the skills and experience I needed to then, develop my tramping skills further.

Jonty: 10:02

Do you have any particularly favorite day walks? Ones which may not be the obvious kind of tire crossings?

Marios: 10:09

Yeah a difficult question, John here. And it's like your kids, you don't have your favorite kid.'cause they're all different in their own ways and you love them, whatever. But I really like broken hills. Which is, just north of the Ang Maar turn off on the eastern side. And it was, an introduction to gold mining and there's a 500 meter long tunnel, the columns drive that goes through there and heaps of old rusting machinery around the place. And, it was. Introduction to the endeavor of the early pioneers and really just the hard work that they went through to be able to extract the courts and then crush it all up. in really difficult country. and so that for me was not just, an entry into the beautiful landscape, but also, realizing some of the European stories associated with that. so Broken Hills, coral Mandel, I really like the Puna kaki area around Potter as well. And, I'm not gonna give away the secrets because this was something that I discovered early on when, people ask me the same question that you've just asked me in that I really like that. Process you go through of, meeting the right people or scouting out on the map. and there's sometimes even by happenstance coming through the crosses beautiful places, and they really have a, an impact on you, in a, in a feeling way. But there's lots to discover around the Pinaki pot at area as well. And then I think the other region that has always hit home is down in f Aland. and that was really the sort of beginning of my guiding career. Gertrude Saddle I think was, a one day trip. It's, known, but that was, yeah, this is pick of the bunch.

Jonty: 11:37

And how's the publishing industry fared since I know the internet has taken over to some degree?

Marios: 11:42

Yeah, it was a short but sweet, career as an author. between 2001 and 2008, I ended up writing 18, guidebooks. 12 of them were day walks. I wrote a book called Tramping in Fjord that was published by New Holland. and Reid also commissioned, three historical guides. they were called Landmarks books. after about 2011, sales really started to tail off significantly. Reed also sold out to Penguin in 2008. And Penguin had a much tighter commercial focus. Reed were really happy to publish books if they felt they were gonna contribute to the greater literary heritage of RT o in New Zealand, even if they weren't gonna be a commercial success. Whereas Penguin were likely if an gonna make money, then we're not interested. by the early, 2010s, we're all starting to use the internet more. And the information was becoming a lot easier to find. the combination of those three factors meant the sales started to tail off. I had a young family and going away for weeks at a time became less and less, viable. So I carried on writing, for New Zealand Wilderness Magazine and a few other publications. But, that was when the authoring tailed off and I started to, become a full-time hiking guide.

Jonty: 12:55

How does one become a professional guide?

Marios: 12:57

Yeah, once again, got a funny name. Mario Sc Well, that's it's a, it's a Greek name. And being brought up in England, I speak like a PO and it's what are you doing showing us around this sort of a place? There was a couple of barriers to, to get over to, I guess be accepted, I was fortunate in before I migrated here, I met, Kiwi friends over in France during ski seasons, and one of his friend's father came over to stay. He's a generation older than myself, but notable botanist with, myy Finner down in Dunedin, Peter Johnson and amazing man, and I guess a walking encyclopedia. And has this amazing knack of being able to bridge academia and, hard science to just telling a damn good yarn. And I was privileged to be able to spend many days with him, both on the Coral mandle and down in Fiordland. Hiking and just listening to him and his interpretation. And so I already sponged up both a lot of knowledge, but also a lot about the style of what interpretation is about. And then obviously researching all these guidebooks. I spent a lot of time in libraries and speaking to local people and gave me a whole wealth of knowledge. And Peter was instrumental in helping me to get a job on the Hollyford track. And that was a three day, two nights guided walk with a couple of lodges one at the Pike River Confluence, and the other at Martins Bay. And so I spent a couple of summers running up and down the hollyford with paying guests, and that was really where I cut my teeth and everything stemmed from there.

Jonty: 14:27

Guiding it's a job, so it's quite different to just going tramping for pleasure. There's a lot more kind of things to consider.

Marios: 14:33

It's a privilege to. Be able to spend your life outdoors in the amazing scenery that these islands have to offer. and I realized pretty early on in my life that sitting down in front of a screen was not for me. And so there'd always been a need to be, outside, physically active and preferably in areas of outstanding natural beauty. and so guiding, and authoring were. A natural fit for where I wanted to be in my life. but when you're guiding you, you're really off service. It's about helping other people to enjoy the place and to give them a depth of experience that they might not have otherwise. And also to look after them in a, in a health and safety way. That's your primary objective. When you're in the, back country, you are, really at the service of those people. which means that for yourself when you want to go on a mission. It actually gives it a bit more zest.'cause you're like, yeah, it's not like you're free, but you're able to take your time to take the photographs or to stop and be with a plant or to sit and have your lunch looking over a landscape and really take your time. So they're very different experiences between guiding and your personal tramping.

Jonty: 15:47

Yeah.'cause I view tramping as a way to switch off, but if you're working, you're switched on the whole time because you're gonna be worrying about your guests.

Marios: 15:53

Yeah, that's exactly it. And you, most of the time you're having a good time with your guests, they're on holiday and they're completely taken by the beauty. And so it's very easy to have fun. But yeah, you're right. you're on. and this was the beauty is during the summers, I'm trotting around the hills, showing people around. But then the downside was that, the summertime would obviously be where you'd be doing a lot more of your own personal missions, especially if you're getting above the tree line and, bringing up a family it was difficult to then have more time off in the winter and difficult to get high. but I would always take myself off for a at least a week or two over the winter. Almost as a sort of a decompression cause it's not just physical energy that you give out when you're guiding, it is more the social energy. You have to have a really strong social battery to, be able to engage with people, over a long period of the day. And. Come the winters. I just actually wanted to be, in with myself. and so the tramping I did in the winters was a real decompression and a real time for internalization and, a time to, really relax. And that's where I find my peace and find my solace when I'm in the beautiful landscapes of these islands.

Jonty: 17:00

In terms of guiding, I'm assuming it's primarily internationals or are there an increasing number of Kiwis considering it.

Marios: 17:06

The Hollyford was mostly internationals but a smattering of Kiwis. After that, when we came up to live I live in the beautiful Matawa Valley. Been here for the last 15 years. So when we first, set up camp here, I spent seven seasons in the Abel Tasman. Once again, the outfit there have a couple of lodges at Torrent Bay and that was mainly internationals, but especially in the shoulder seasons and the school holidays, you get a lot of kiwis, and it's great to to help New Zealanders discover their own. Country as well. And it was amazing how often I'd hear people from, Auckland or Hamilton or Toga, coming down to this region and say, oh, we travel overseas a lot, but we figured that we should actually see our own backyard first. Because I think for a lot of Kiwis traveling overseas. It gives'em value in terms of, what we don't have here, and maybe in terms of longer human history or, majestic archeological sites. But they also realize that the natural beauty of these islands is unsurpassed anywhere that you go on the world and the people that you meet on the tracks here and the whole tre. Hiking culture is so friendly that Kiwis really wanna experience that. So it's always a pleasure to guide Kiwis and it's also a pleasure to watch the Kiwis and the international visitors interact and how the international visitors, especially, I'm a French speaker as well, so I spent quite a bit of time guiding Frenchies and the French are like, when they start having a conversation with a Kiwi, they're like, wow, you guys are really friendly because they're just not used to that. Back in France where everybody's rude, nobody wants to help. And it's great you're watching those little sort of cultural GeoSyn.

Jonty: 18:43

Naval Tasman National Park is beautiful throughout, but are there any particularly special parts of the park to you?

Marios: 18:49

Yes. Obviously seven seasons must have hiked the coastal tre, I dunno, 250 times or something like that. But we always used to with my fellow guides go on on little missions ourselves when we had time off. The park's just great because you can explore it by kayak as well, which gives you a completely different perspective. And obviously the coastal track is what gets all the accolades and everybody knows about. But once you start venturing up some of the the watersheds up towards the end land track there is some amazing country through there. So the Torrent River. is an absolute beauty. But that's surpassed by the Falls River. So there's a short detour off the main coastal track that takes you up to a couple of swimming holes and small waterfalls. But if you carry on past there. Then pretty rough broken granite country. Progress is incredibly slow. But once you weave your way round bluffs and climb up a few faces, you don't need ropes or anything, and scramble through the dirt. You get up to a, upland plateau. And there you can actually get into the Falls River and it's only about waist deep, and you can follow that up to a beautiful place called Glenys Cleary. And there's beaches you can camp on through there. And the missions I've done up through there have been post project y Zon. There's quite a few trapping tracks that are being cut. And that makes your progress a bit faster. And then you can drop down into the, our watershed and, come out onto the beach there. so yeah, some really awesome missions exploring up at the inland areas and then also really enjoy the northern part of the park. So most people were doing the coastal track. We'll finish up to, which is as far as the boat transport gets, but north there up towards and PI and mutton Cove separation point. and then the loops around there around Gibbs Hill. There's quite a few little hidden spots there's a lot to offer in enabled Hassman beyond the coastal track.

Jonty: 20:41

I'm always a bit envious of living around the area.'cause you've also got. Relatively easy access into Nelson Lakes National Park, to Ang National Park,

Marios: 20:49

yeah, that's right. Obviously Nelson Lakes, you're really getting into proper, mountains there and kind. It's funny. I look at the peaks of of. To our Fadi, Mount Arthur and the, to our Fadi Papa Range. And once again, kgi has such variety and, being our second largest national park, I've not even begun to explore kgi in, in depth even though I've lived here for so long. Yeah, I feel really privileged that. Literally with them, on my doorstep is is more tramping than I could ever do. And in fact, now my kids are older and we've fled the nest. And I've got more time with my partner now to go off and explore the hills. I climbed out in with her, back in the autumn, and that was just. outstanding. What a country, just so other worldly, the limestone cast up there and how deeply weathered and the erosion and the. The root finding that you have to do to be able to avoid the little crevasses through there and the razor sharp nature of the rock. And that softness that you get from a limestone geology, it was, just beautiful. And, we'd have breakfast at home and then, dinner time. We're up atran.

Jonty: 21:52

Your living situation is a bit different to most, I think you've talked about living in a Europe for some time.

Marios: 21:58

yeah. I've never really been one for houses and, I guess this is part of this, as a Trumper, we spend so much time under canvas and, we all. I think have that real connection that you feel when you're just a thin layer of canvas between you and the natural world and the humidity that you're able to sense and, bird call in the morning and the of the leaves All those wonderful warming experiences that we have in a tent when we're tramping. When it came to setting up a bit of land, we bought two acres of bare dirt. He had some mature trees on it and a hazelnut orchard and some chestnuts and walnuts. We had some ready planted trees, but otherwise it was just a paddock. We were looking to set up somewhere where we could just walk around in bare feet. And feel like we were connected to nature. And I had a friend who was building Yurts at the time and he said why don't you have a go at doing one legally, trying to put it through counsel. So we did, and we got all the sign off. And so for 11 years while the children were growing up, we lived in 50 square meters it was a glorified tank, had insulation and a elm floor and, beautiful furniture all throughout. But it was a really warm, cozy, comfortable space with a log fire. But once again, you could hear the birds first thing in the morning and we had a dome skylight. at the apex of the roof, so you could lie in bed and watch the moon traverse over and you could watch Kahu fly over in the mornings. And it was, yeah, it just always makes me feel like my sort of, my need to get into the hills, I feel is less because I have so much of what I enjoy in the hills here at home as well.

Jonty: 23:36

And now you're building, tiny home on wheels.

Marios: 23:39

Yeah. Very early on after migrating to RT OI I was working as a builder on the Corman and there was one day I was going out to a job and, I drove past this dock campground behind a PTO bay and I was mesmerized. I saw this. Beautiful Mercedes truck dripping in chrome, shiny black, and this huge home on the back that was all and batten red light windows and a little chimney coming out the top. So on the way back, I knocked on the door. I said, sorry to disturb, but I've just gotta tell you that this is the most beautiful home I've ever seen in my life. I just wanted to say thank you. And anyway, they invited me in and three hours later I'd heard all about their life stories and how they'd built it. And that really sowed the seed for wanting to build my own truck. Never really got round to it. I built my own, converted my own bus. when the kids were young, we lived in the bus down in now for a year and a half. Then we sold that and then bought this bit of land. But that dream of. Building and living in a truck had always stayed with me. I wrote an article for New Zealand Geographic magazine on the Gypsy Fair, which is a sort of a caravan of traveling market. And that really reinforced the beauty of being itinerant, which as trampers and hikers, it is that joy and sheer pleasure of discovering new places The process of being able to go through a map before you go away and think, oh, what would that be like? And then expediting that, and then that sort of integration feeling you have after having been there and you're going through your memories and your photos and your journals and and so that being, being an itinerant, I think. That notion's changed quite a lot, certainly since the late nineties when I migrated here, where there was a lot more physical space and I think a lot more social space. I think New Zealand's become a bit of a victim of its own success in terms of how many tourists and the style of travel they have, especially with the camper van market. And so I think it's a lot harder now to be able to find those out of the way places to be able to park up and chuck your fishing rod in a river or take a little walk. And so that sort of dream of living in a house truck and moving around has slid out. But the idea of living in the aesthetics of a truck has stayed with me. And that's why I have the time and the energy and the skills finally building the truck of my dreams, which is gonna replace the yurt and, hopefully be a home for. See me through.

Jonty: 25:55

The kids are grown up now, so you can. In terms of space, are you trying to have enough space for kids and adults? Or just for the adults?

Marios: 26:02

When I tell people I'm down scaling from a 50 square meter year to a 24 square meter house track there, guys, you're crazy. Marios. But yeah, I really, I think this is one of the things that I've learned. Through, spending, thousands of days in the front and back country is, I think we all love that minimalism that we feel when we're in the hills of being self-reliant with just what's on your back. And I've always wanted to try and translate that as close as possible to my living circumstances as well. I love a warm fire and I love cooking up a big feast for friends and family. And I'm not saying that we want to remove ourselves from the creature comforts, but in terms of having a smaller impact on Mother Earth and living in ways that keep us closer to nature, I think it's really important. And yeah really feel privileged that a family find my Wai here in the MOCA Valley.

Jonty: 26:58

They've obviously done some hiking overseas and even though we share the same accent, I didn't start tramping until I got to New Zealand, I've never been up toia. what's the closest toia from a New Zealand perspective?

Marios: 27:08

Oh it's funny, I think Snowden only just about tops a thousand meters in altitude, which I think, the Coral Mandel and the highest peaks Mount Moho is just under a thousand. Mount Te Idaho was the same, but I think anywhere in, uh, te. You've gotta go through some forest first to be able to get that sort of altitude. Whereas everywhere in England, I think, all the native forest in England had been chopped down by the time Henry viii. So I was just back there recently in late district with my family over there and hardly a tree to be seen and, walking up old man. so it's, I think it's very difficult to find these comparisons. I think our landscape here is so unique and, this is a comment that's often impeded by, international visitors, is that not only is our landscape aesthetically beautiful, but we have this lush forest that cloaks. The whole landscape. So I think that has been my, my main teacher from. Early days in Snowdonia to now exploring these islands is that developing a relationship with the forest. So that's really where I feel my love is now lying.

Jonty: 28:15

Now wildlife is obviously unique as well. Have you had any memorable encounters?

Marios: 28:19

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think this is something that's come to the fore. the longer I've been tramping is that, when I was younger, I was obviously fitter and I think, we all tend to. Walk faster and do more when we're younger. And now in my fifties, I'm still active, but slowing down and taking the time to appreciate my surroundings more. And I think when you do that, you are really able to get on the same, resonance as the wildlife and, especially with the birds. So I'll always remember, an encounter with the New Zealand Falcon walking through a, it was like a little tree tunnel in the hollyford. And, it was one of the few times I actually walked the hollyford myself rather than with guests once again, slowing down. I didn't see cardiac here, but I just felt this. I couldn't even feel the wind, I almost felt the energy of it passing and it would've been within an arms distance for me. And it just delighted on this branch, a couple of meters up and we eyeball each other for, I dunno how long, but that was such a deep, memorable connection I think it cemented it as my spirit animal. Another experience was, researching, one of my books of the Wild and Napa, and I'd gone to, castle Point, photographs the lighthouse there at, sunset. as I was walking back, I stopped in my tracks in a hoho, yellow eye. Penguin was on the track and it wasn't moving. It was almost like it didn't know I was there. And so yeah, I stopped and I just retreated and I stayed still. once again, it was one of those timeless moments I realized that this ho, ho was probably towards the end of its life. I whether it was going blind or quite what, but anyway, it was like, okay, I'm gonna walk around you rather you scuttle off. was a privilege to spend so much time in such proximity to what is otherwise a very shy creature.

Jonty: 30:12

Amazing. What's left on your tramping bucket list?

Marios: 30:16

Yeah, once again, living so close to, to, I really wanna start exploring in more depth. Now I've got more time on my hands and, I really wanna walk my skyline. To our Fadi pa Mount Arthur is the main peak of the Fadi PPA range. And you can then, from the floor of car park, you can. either go to our fadi pa or you can then, head north towards, load stone and then crusader, which is a sort of a flat top peak, which is quite prominent on the skyline that you see from Foo Nelson. And then goes over Horary head to Mount Campbell. So that's the skyline that I see from home. And my daughter is actually, she's got that skyline tattooed on her on her foot. So it's really it's her Wai. So we're gonna walk that together, hopefully over, over this summer. But by extension, the two hour fa papa Range if you carry on south, goes over, the twins and and the Batten Saddle. All the way to Mount Gamora and Mount Sodom, like really evocative names. But then you can also head north from Mount Campbell and you can. go over Haley's knob and actually get into the Abel Tasman and follow a ridge there all the way down to Prise Bay. I'd really love to do that whole extended walk one day as well. Yeah. Just an example of, the depth that's open to us here, just within Kahani and in really close proximity,

Jonty: 31:35

how long do you think that would take?

Marios: 31:37

Haven't researched it in enough detail to know, but I think the longer hike could be maybe nine days. But once again, it'd be good though. I'd be able to, because there's road access at Flora Saddle, be able to have a food drop there.

Jonty: 31:50

So it's quite doable. And that's. Yeah, I think connecting up the different tracks and routes and a bit of off route, you can turn those kind of 2, 3, 4 day tramp, dock tramp. Here's your description into some pretty epic adventures.

Marios: 32:01

That's right. And I think this is one of the joys, of having so much country open to us as New Zealanders is that we're not tied. Just to the tracks, although, the tracks and the roots are amazing. And they're amazing with good reason and, we should, definitely be getting out there and doing those. But we also have the opportunity to be able to read our maps and just dream. And see, oh, if I link this together and link that together. And now obviously with, so much valuable material of people who've shared their experiences on the internet, we can start to get some pretty, good information to keep us safe as well. And know is that river gonna be crossable and am I gonna get bluffed here even though the contours look like it can happen. And there are all these sort of little tricky pinch points that we can work out. Yeah, this is one of the joys, just being able to get lost in a map and put together these roots.

Jonty: 32:47

Wonderful. Good luck with that trip, and thank you so much for your time today.

Marios: 32:51

Really appreciate what you're doing here with your Tramping Life podcast. I think it's really important that in, this day and age. The solace and the peace that we feel when we're outdoors and slowing down to the rhythms of nature is really important to keep us all, sane and together. Appreciate what you do for that culture, jaunty. Thank you.

Speaker: 33:12

Thank you so much for listening to the Tramping life. If you've enjoyed today's episode, please follow the podcast in whatever app you use. Tell a friend about it and consider leaving a rating or a review. It really helps more people discover the show. you have any questions or feedback, I'd love to hear from you. Drop me an email at the tramping life, one word@gmail.com.