Craig: 0:00

I remember the top of the Hoka, we stayed in this little hut it seemed like we almost had to crawl on it. It was extremely, stormy outside. We were very hungry we. It got a little fire going and then the whole floor started burning

Speaker: 0:20

Kiro and welcome to the Tramping Life, a podcast about hiking in New Zealand, or as we call it here, tramping. I'm jt, and in each episode I chat with people who share passion for exploring this incredible country. We'll hear about the tracks they love, the huts they return to, the lessons they've learned, and what keeps them heading back into the bush.

Jonty: 0:39

My guest today is Craig Potent, a trailblazing photographer, publisher, documentary maker and conservationist. His work has inspired countless people to experience, appreciate and defend New Zealand's wild places. I'm delighted to welcome him to the podcast. Good day, Greg. Hi Jonty. I'm interested in what's your earliest memories of being outdoors?

Craig: 0:59

Not my memories. The thing about memory is it's very slippery anyway, so I'm relying a bit on my mother here. She said that even when I couldn't walk, I didn't walk for a long time. I was a crawler, but I could crawl at high speed and I used to crawl. Out the door of the house, the opposite to the animals coming in winter, like spiders and everything. And I would bring back dead spiders or plants or something and show my mother, who was never as thrilled as I was with what I bought back from the wild. My own memory level. We had a batch. My father and mother, had this New Zealand holiday home thing and my memory is wilderness for me started at the beach actually, just being in this. Wild place where the tide came in and out, where there were shells that once had animals in them that, I was fascinated by. And I collected shells and I collected rocks from a very early age. It a certain sort of possessiveness of collecting, which is not a very pleasant thing, but also an acknowledgement that there's something there which I want to have and record. And you can get quite psychological and say, that's why I became a photographer'cause I wanted to. Collect and show these images and put them out there.'cause I always showed them to people, look at my malachite or my aite or my quartz vein and this sort of stuff. It's that early thing about nature. I was just a kid that loved being there.

Jonty: 2:18

Then when did you start tramping your first multi-day tramp.

Craig: 2:22

I did go surfing from a very early age, sort of 10, 12 years old in the wild, and that really was my adolescence. it wasn't till I was about 15 or 16 that I started doing what you'd say. Yeah, overnight, tramps and tramping. And that was purely with mates, mates that just loved getting into the wild too. And I come from. Nelson and Nelson College actually had a lodge called Kentucky Lodge. Maybe the first tramp overnight I did was with that, outdoor education thing that they had in secondary schools in those days. that may well have been it. But, once I got in there, I was hooked. I just kept going back and doing lots of tramps Through university, I kept going. but it all got complicated because by the time I was 16, at secondary school at Nelson College, I ran into Annie Wheeler from the girls college and she had this petition to save man a Prairie. So from the very early age, tramping and conservation just got mixed straight into each other because, it didn't take. Any great effort for me to see that we were destroying the places that I loved being in.

Jonty: 3:24

Have you revisited places that you would've visited as a teenager or a young adult and you can see the difference in terms of the bird life or the ecological damage that we've caused.

Craig: 3:32

Oh, hell yeah. Yeah, I don't think people comprehend just how much can happen even in a lifetime. Be it the fact that, to go back to the ocean that we'd catch 20 to 30 large snappers in the channel at ur and one catch I'd go to Nelson Lakes. I don't think I'm exaggerating, but I would see 40 or. 50 large deer just walking as if they were, pets. Almost across the tops I would see flocks of kaki parakeets in Nelson Lakes National Park. you just don't see them at all. Now, they're not there unless we bring them back into the, island habitats. the loss. Over my lifetime. and some of the changes for the better'cause you don't see deer at all on the tops now, but mainly changes for the worse. so yeah, if you string together the 60 years or so that I've been looking through and run it in a fast take, you'd just see things disappearing and hear things disappearing. at a colossal rate,

Jonty: 4:27

Being a photographer. you capture the moment and so that instills the memory and then it's a lot easier to refer back to what things once were. If you're just rely on your memory, it can be a bit hazy, but if you've got the photos to actually show the difference, that's quite powerful.

Craig: 4:41

Yeah, I think it. Probably is, it's a little bit about that sort of locking down and saying this is it, this has got both obviously a temporal aspect to it, but it's also got an eternal aspect. Nature is eternal, humans may or may not be eternal. They might, may or not be a good experiment evolutionary, but nature itself is eternal. It's as much for me, but it's also trying to communicate for others that this is something beautiful. This is something that's very other. It's not something we made. It's not constructed. It has nothing to do with humans per se. And we get such a extraordinary, lift out of being amongst it. We do really get a lot of a lot of power out of being in nature. Whether we acknowledge it or not, we get it. That tried to put that into art right from the early days. I used to draw, I used to write dreadful poetry and thankfully take some good photographs.

Jonty: 5:31

So you've been taking photos since you were a teenager or when did that start?

Craig: 5:35

Yeah, no, absolutely. The record slipping a bit here, but I did it first surfing'cause that was the first wilderness for me. And then it just went straight into the camera went straight into the mountains as well. And I found. Pretty quickly, photographing above the bush line was easier than photographing in the bush. So that sort of desire to take good photographs in the bush and it was the bush that was, from the age of 17 on Lake Man Prairie was going to flood. The shoreline, the beach scheme, which I quickly got involved in at university to oppose that was gonna cut 600,000 acres. 300,000 hectares almost of forest down on the west coast that the rest of the world just wanted to tramp through and enjoy as tourists. I had to photograph. And that became my raison detra in a way. That's something that I got singled out for of what was, how to photograph Native Forest from the interior, not from the exterior. Not looking at it as a scene, but being in it, which is the tramping experience. You're in the forest, you're not looking at it,

Jonty: 6:30

then how much gear are you carrying?'cause pre-digital, there's a few more things to to lug around.

Craig: 6:35

Now I go to a chiropractor three times a week. And, that lasts for another two months. And then he said, hopefully, discs B and AC will be better. And I go and do Pilate and I, also get deep tissue massage. All of those are a reflection that I carried too much gear when I was younger. I had that, strange thing of A body that probably worked too well in a way. I can partly blame it an indoor basketball, but I mainly blame it on just carrying packs or miles was too heavy for too longer a distance. My cameras, I would carry two bodies, just in case one broke down. The foolishness of that is incomprehensible today. they weren't digital, so they were. Medium format, big cameras that, weighed half a ton or somewhere in that sort of region and, tripod and extra film and extra lenses. I look back and think, boy, you talk about. The oxes that worked hard. and I was an ox that worked hard to get those photographs. Today I walk with a digital camera that's still relatively heavy, but I just have one lens on it, a fixed prime lens, and That's enough. It wasn't like that In the old days, It was pretty bloody heavy.

Jonty: 7:40

Did you have any tramping companions that could help lighten the load with, food and cooking gear?

Craig: 7:44

No, I guess the male has an ego and you don't, feel as though you can foister your mad obsession that you have with photography onto others. I pretty much carried it for myself. It was partly just that weird thing. And there are people, and I was one of them when I was young, and I'm certainly not one now that just seemed to be able to carry heavy weights on my back and get away with it for, a number of hours and a number of years, and then a decade or two, The body worked for me when I was young.

Jonty: 8:10

We got good use out of it. In terms of some of the most memorable trips that come to mind, either from a good way or maybe a bad way, in terms of near misses or disasters, are there any that spring to mind?

Craig: 8:22

Oh, hell yes. Formative ones, that life goes at the same speed apparently, if you think of normal physics terms, but there are some highlights and some epiphanies and some high areas that you have that, stick in your life that will never go away as being something very special. And my first climb was a mountain called Mount Princess, which is, near Lake Tenon. that just hooked me on to. Climbing mountain, going above the bush line in this case, not much bush, a lot of tussock in the Molesworth side of the south island. it was winter we climbed up there, a couple of friends of mine and then there was a frozen lake that sits princess bath, it's called, just close under the summit. we, skated around on that and then took to the ridgeline and went to the summit. And yeah, there are days like that I just. Perfect. And they stay there in your head like they were yesterday. I slept on the top of Mount Cook one night that has that same sort of effect. there are certain images come out of being in the forest, just walking up the Copeland, amongst the potter cart trees, and just feeling their life and, breathing in the oxygen they were providing. I'm quite soppy the way I talk about it because I don't think we do anthropomorphize nature enough. Some people say we do it too much, but I genuinely feel grateful for trees to that oxygen I feel alive when they, thankfully for free make me feel happy in their, living green state. That might be just an epiphany of a period of a time when everything just fell together in a beautiful way in my head. and it. Was 30 years ago. I guess the last thing I'd mention without making a list too long was, we did walk from me and three other friends from Milford to Nelson Lakes in a very long traverse. Tried to stay above the bush line a lot, storms pushed us this way in that. So it was as much mountaineering as tramping,

Jonty: 10:04

you probably stayed in quite a few huts. Are there any that stick in your mind for good or bad reasons?

Craig: 10:09

I remember the top of the Hoka, we stayed in this little hut it seemed like we almost had to crawl on it. It was extremely, stormy outside. We were very hungry we. It got a little fire going and then the whole floor started burning like the smoke was coming up underneath. We were burning down the house that we were in. It's a song by Midnight Oil and we were doing it, burning down the house. And it was miserable weather and things felt. Dire and strange at the same time, like sitting on the branch and cutting it off. And you're gonna fall anyway. So I'd had that image, which just stayed with me forever. I just have such a strong vivid memory of that happening and just the absurdity. We put ourselves in because in some ways it was a analogy of how we treat nature. It was all wrapped up in this one loony night and this small hut that was at the top of this river that the rain was pouring down and. Why were we there? But some wonderful nights in huts for long periods of time, being on the side of Mount Aspiring and Colin Todd hut. and a huge storm where lightning let loose where thunder just rattled. The place where the static electricity made the whole hut just buzz. And then other huts like in the East Kentucky where, no one had been there for a month and probably no one would visit a month after you'd been. And the Blue Ducks were down in the pond and yeah, they go on. It's very, very tempting for me to relive my life when I'm talking to you, John D. But yeah, there are moments like that huts were wonderful. But here's the thing. We actually found on that trip that being under bivy rocks felt better than being in huts. If we get a decent, bivy rock, AWA rock is prime of the bivy rocks. it could fit a bus in there or that sort of language, and it's dry. There's something about sleeping under a rock for me. And you could say I read too much about early art.'cause the first art was painting on rock walls and all this house and, in France and other places. And, we came outta rocks, basically, that was all our shelter. that was where we had our, physical and spiritual nourishment was outta rocks. And when you go back into those rocks, it just feels so safe. Huts rattled and they do, have a degree of human construction and fragility about them. But, when you're under a big bivy rock, you could come with a few statements outta the Old Testament about, I am the Rock. Or you could sing a pop song about it all because rocks are powerful. They're strong that they protect you, if you're on the right side of the rock. I've had some great nights under bivy rocks. I would put them as the highest form of accommodation that can be provided outside of the home you live in.

Jonty: 12:39

They can't protect you from sand flies, though. That would be my downside.

Craig: 12:42

I don't think a hat can either. And hats, one night we were sleeping in. near the three passes at at Arthur's Pass. And I had food that I was using as a pillow with a little bit of cloth over top, and a bloody rat ate half of my breakfast under my head. I was so tired. wherever you are, there's sand flies, rats and other such creatures that were sent here to tell us that we weren't the highest creature on the planet all the time.

Jonty: 13:05

Now, I know you've done some hiking overseas, so things like the sub Antarctic islands or the dry valleys of Antarctic. Yeah. Presumably there's fewer sand flies, but the wildlife must be quite incredible down there.

Craig: 13:14

Yeah I've been very lucky, I guess when you have the ability to, to take a photograph that other people respond to. But you're not a scientist, then you can get to the dry values if you're lucky. And then I have been lucky and I've known the right people in the right places. And that's all helped. And I've been able to have made a conservation cause for doing it, which has also helped. But, my friend Robbie Burton and I, my business partner of Burton and Pot, we were lucky without any guides or anything to be able to spend three weeks in the dry valleys of Antarctica, that was, beyond extraordinary that was not otherworldly. It's very much, it's very much the world, but it was extraordinary to be there and to. Put up a tent knowing that if the wind hits a certain velocity your tent is not gonna stay upright. And there aren't any bivy rocks in those valleys. There are rocks. The beautiful rocks. The rocks I've photographed. That are wind blowing and they're extraordinary. And that's why I was there. And part of more for anything just about was the rocks, because they dry alleys, they've got no snow or ice much in them. You couldn't build a snow cave. That's the most exposed I've ever felt in my life in the wild, because once that wind gets over a certain strength and we were told that, and it was a hundred K from the nearest helicopter, which wouldn't wanna fly and win anyway of that nature. That felt exposed, but it was an extraordinarily wonderful time we had there. And then the Himalayas I'm not a great mountain climber. I always seek out the easiest route to get to a high point so that I can get a view and sit down and relax. But I've been pretty high in the Himalayas over 20,000 feet and Masu, isu and, I've done some time overseas, but most of my time in New Zealand, mountains and forests.

Jonty: 14:53

So what have you seen overseas that you think we could learn from here, or things that you've seen overseas that you hope don't come to New Zealand?

Craig: 14:59

if you look at Antarctica straight away, what you hope won't come to the world is the total effect of global warming. Because everything will become the dry valley. The ice is for whatever reason, not. Getting into the dry valley and big volumes. And you've got these lakes, but nothing else. That's what the hole of Antarctic is gonna look like. We just published a book about the glaciers and all the glaciers of the south island will be gone within 60 years at the present rate of glacial warming. That is an atrocious figure. You know that just stops you, me and the rest of New Zealand and its tracks and should stop us and just says that we are irresponsible beyond God's belief in the way that we're treating nature and that our prime interest in, protecting now should be toward stopping that. People talk about climate resilience, but it's not resilience, it's stopping it. Resilience is almost a bad word. We're gonna make ourselves resilient. You can't make a glacier resilient. It just goes away if you rise temperature too much. And if we lost all our glaciers, of the south island, what are we giving to? Not just to our kids, but what are we. What are we doing with the world? You've asked me to talk about tramping jte, but it doesn't take long for me to start talking about conservation. we live in that generation that has to be responsible for it. And we have to stop what we have started. And if we don't, we'll go in the direction, which is obvious and it's unpleasant. And horrible for nature, and ourselves as a consequence of that. If I look at Himalayas, I get the opposite perspective perhaps to talk about in the more post, it must be a more positive way. And that is people that are happy in the mountains, to be amongst the Sherpas. Everyone says, I went to the Himalayas or I went to Nepal and I thought I was gonna enjoy the mountains. And I came away just babbling about how wonderful the sheers and the mountain people are. So I've been to Mongolia and I've been to the Himalayas and I've been to Tibet as well as Nepal and The Dark, and these wonderful places that have people that live there amongst that landscape. Yes, they definitely have an impact and it's definitely not always good, but they do live with A certain degree of harmony compared to the way we do. But here's the rub. They're happier than we are. How the hell you measure happiness is that you get up in the morning and just start laughing with these people and enjoying life and, getting all smokey around the fire while the, you're trying to boil some water, et cetera, which they do much better than I do. And you just feel this great joy and it's often related to the fact that they're grateful. They make it very obvious that they're grateful that they will actually just get up and say their little prayer, their mantra, their reflection, that it just comes to them that they're grateful that they're in the mountains and that you don't have to know the mountains or you don't have to know the forest as a God. but you do have to know. That it has given you something that you can neither create yourself, or brings a happiness that is outside of all your little squabbles and all your sort of mind games that we all play with each other that is just there in this wonderful way. So the gratitude and the happiness of mountain people, and I'm not the first to note that. it's been noted. In many places by many people like Peter Matheson that write better than I do. And photographers that take wonderful photographs. Very creative, very happy, very profoundly grateful people in cultures that, live in high places. Not always the case. But more often than not, and I've certainly loved my time amongst them.

Jonty: 18:22

So I listened to an excellent interview with you and Kim Hill from a few years ago You were talking about writing a book or a text and photography book, about your time in the Himalaya. Is that still a work in progress?

Craig: 18:33

Yes, it is. And it's a bad joke with all the people that, I've done those trips in the mountains with. It's becoming a bad joke with the front cerebral lobes of my head at present too, because I wrote and finished a text quite some time ago. So it's no more or no less than selecting the photographs feeling happy with, the product so that I can actually publish it. I don't wanna promise in public on a podcast when that, will be published, but it's fair to say that it's 20 years late at present and counting.

Jonty: 19:00

I know that selecting the photos as a photographer myself, just obviously amateur, but it can be very hard. I know you published a book where you couldn't describe between two photos. You published both of them, so maybe you need to do that with the Himalaya one just to get it finished.

Craig: 19:11

Oh yeah. That's one of the problems. I've been 30 years in the Himalayas every second year at. Roundabout or make a trip. That's 15 major trips. And too many good photographs in my, humble opinion, and how to make a selection amongst them and what to say. If I can perhaps, be kind to myself, I'd say that it is actually quite hard because there are some very good books out there on the Himalayas. Very good books, why reinvent the wheel when it's already been made? Why do another book. Called Himalayas with, quite lovely, sophisticated photographs saying that the Tibetans are nice people. It's been said before, it's been done before and I know some of the photographers even that have done it and have met them and applauded their work rightly or wrongly, I'm trying to say something, a little different in the way I create and construct the images. and yeah, it's going through changes. The Himalayas, like everywhere, cultural changes and global warming changes and they're crashing into each other and they're crashing into traditional culture. We know this, that the young don't have the same faith belief. good and bad ideas. Older generation do we know that the D LA's gotta reign in as some of his younger political activists. Otherwise, China's gonna wreck hell on them. We know all that. And so I guess for me, I take my photography seriously and my writing seriously, I wanna say something that is not unique, but has a flavor that perhaps has an angle to it. That's probably why I haven't done it, because I haven't quite found that angle and that, that take or that cut, if you wanna put it. And I have done a lot of other books, you might say, as excuses to avoid the great maxim opus. There's a. A lovely song by Bob Dylan. When I paint my masterpiece, everything will be different when I paint my masterpiece, he says, and of course you know he is never gonna paint it. Maybe he'll never write the perfect song by a Himalayan book, but I will do it. I've now promised on a podcast that I will.

Jonty: 21:09

Apart from the Burton of being responsible for publishing many classic tramping books, can you tell us a bit about, that as a genre

Craig: 21:15

It's been a, one with longevity, if you wish to put it that way, in the, publishing world is fickle and fashionable like every other world. And the fact is simply that, from the very early, classic walks, classic tramping and classic peaks and that we've just been able to, perhaps keep a freshness into. Publishing what effectively are just tramping books or just, people being out in the wilderness. We had that wonderful gentleman. Sean Barnett, of course, who we've lost recently to cancer. and Andy Dennis, who we've lost a little bit before that to cancer and these guys, they're the ones that really kept us going. Rob Brown with his huts and Jeff Spearpoint and people that are reflective, that are intelligent, that write well, that have been able to keep our publishing going. My first classic walks book, Sean took it over, made it more accurate, some different photographs and, we repackaged it again and again, so to speak, but each time with the freshness. So we owe it. Robbie and I, to those guys for keeping that genre going. The feedback loop is wonderful. People in the tramping. Clubs and FMC, et cetera, they give us. Reviews that actually are too good. Really, that they always say that these are wonderful books. No, but they're good, and some of them are very good. and some of them, yes, they could have done a bit more time and a bit more editing, but, we'll take all the good comments people give us because the feedback loop's good. It gets them out in the hills. and then, we can say to them would you write a submission on, Putting stewardship land into the full conservation estate rather than, just letting it be.'cause otherwise, Jones will get a hold of it, and, turn it into a mine or a dam we partly just love that we can continue to do those books and get the response from people. but myself particularly. do love that they're a continuance of that movement and that feeling that, we should protect nature.

Jonty: 23:13

So they're continuing to do okay. I guess the internet and social media must be having some impact.

Craig: 23:18

yeah. No, definitely. The numbers of books that we used to sell compared to the number we sell now has, is, the great reduction. There's been a great reduction in sales of books right across the board. So you know, you don't just pick up. Tramping or you don't just pick off biography. We don't just pick off, the genres of publishing and say are some still doing better? Even cookbooks, my lord, are not selling as well as they used to.'cause people can get the recipe on their phones. Once cookbooks go down the toilet, you know that the whole publishing world's in trouble. We have had to downsize and there's a sense in which. That was hard. Very hard because we had built up to a company that employed 23 people and we're down to three. That gives you a sense of order of reduction. Publishing of books doesn't have the volume of cash flowing through it that it used to have. It still has a degree in why we believe in it still of it's got a lastingness about it. I dunno how long podcasts last before they get in that great podcast Rubbish heap in the sky. Books do actually end up in secondhand bookstores and libraries so they have a longevity you wish that will remain. You just accept and probably it is almost too an analogy for the fact that, I come from the 1970s when I was adolescent. Adulthood. And there were books written by Schumacher and other writers about how small is beautiful, how the fact that at some point we have to stop just growing and growing and, having bigger numbers. Like what's wrong with the economy, the numbers aren't big enough that when as big as last year hey, wait a minute, with the finite world you've gotta recognize that growth. It is just another form of cancer in the sense that if it gets uncontrolled and cancer is just uncontrolled growth, that's the definition of cancer, then what we're doing to the planet just to have that unconditional growth. Now I'm getting pretty philosophical about something as simple as books, but nevertheless. Living within the limit and accepting that there are limits and that the numbers may not be as high as last year, but you can be just as happy in a yurt or a little hut. And the the Himalaya is probably happier than in a great mansion In town worrying about your own anxieties. Publishing might just be a microcosm of what we need to do, which is to downsize, just to treat the earth a bit more lightly, treat ourselves a bit more openly, where we have more time, where we're not. Just trying to push those numbers up and up and up because that creates a stress. And we hear so much about stress and we hear so much about anxiety and kids these days and adults, and we hear all those statements and yeah. Maybe we just need to relax a bit with a little less,

Jonty: 25:54

you've had a long involvement with FMC and with Forest and Bird. How have you seen the advocacy movement develop over that time?

Craig: 26:01

When we first started it was in that pre-social media period for a long time. That's how ancient I am. and that means that it's changed quite radically. toward the end, if you wish of my tenure in these games. I'm still very involved in forest and bird, but it was hard enough for me to get onto this podcast and push all the right buttons and being an invitee or whatever I was, and type my name and God knows what else just to get into here. so that's changed the way in which you get public opinion energized, but essentially that's. Remain the same, which is you have to get people energized. You've gotta have a core people that have a very good fundamental argument about why they, are energizing people and then get that message through to the political powers that be to make decisions that count. I've seen a huge amount of change in that, and I'll be first person to, appreciate the fact that I'm not at present, of Faye with, I don't feel as close. As someone who has been a very politically active person to what? I should be doing to make the biggest impact. Now, when we were young, it was, large petitions. We did the largest petition presented to parliament called the RIA declaration about the forest. It was letter writing. We got people in every little home and what we called cottage groups all around New Zealand to and say, don't cut down AK forest, it should be left. they went to politicians. We lobbied some of that. Continued and some of it's completely stopped. Don't ask me to be a social scientist. I dunno exactly what you do now. But thankfully people still do listen to my voice or to Jerry McSweeney's voice and Alan Mark. And we are three ambassadors from Forest and Bird. Probably just'cause. We did achieve some success when we were younger rather than that, we know how to talk now. But that's useful. Yep. And in the time, and things like the New Zealand Conservation Authority, FMC and Forest and Bird, they're groups that get together under a common banner and offer advice at different levels because they all are basically just giving advice to a government. They're all still there and. They are still the way in which even though people say they're powerless, but they are still the way in which we do actually get progress in the areas that we want progress in. So that hasn't changed.

Jonty: 28:17

And which of our governments have you seen being the most receptive and least receptive to that advocacy and support?

Craig: 28:23

that's been a fascinating one because We achieved as much conservation outcomes under national, as we did under labor. And that does surprise people basically national, there are people there that care about nature. I can name Deni Marshall, I can name Ian Sheer, I can name these gentlemanly, and they are old white men. I'll stick up for old white men being one myself. They just love nature. It was sheer that saved Feki, it was Marshall and Nick Smith that helped us make Raki, Euro National Park. You can name the names and just as many are national as they are labor. There are people like Jim Bulger. He loved tramping, he loved being out in the wild. He could understand. I think if you went to Jones he couldn't understand because he doesn't tramp,

Jonty: 29:05

Thinking about your tramping bucket list, what new places do you have to explore or which places would you like to return to?

Craig: 29:11

Do you go back to places you love and get more out of them or do you go to new places because, there's always a bright star shining down, just beyond the horizon that's got El Dorado that has the perfect land, the promised land of Colin McCann, and I'm more of a returner, call me a home person. I'm going home to quote, Leonard Cohen and that's what I feel. I now. Spend a long time, and it must remain a secret because I'm a surfer and we don't like other people catching our waves. somewhere on the west coast of the south island, and the same with tramps. I will walk the same walks, be it, as short as the Washburn Reserve and Tarka Valley, or whether it's, Nelson Lakes around the edge of the lake. And you'd think, you're setting yourself up for repetition and boredom, but not at all. if you just walk that lake walk, which I walked last week actually for the 277th time and not counting, but, it was as good as the first time I walked it. and it's not call me old fashioned. It's rather call me someone who, has always had a feeling that the spiritual value of being. Forest or being in wilderness by the ocean is not increased by going to a new place. It's not decreased by repetition in an old place. It's a graceful situation that happens when it happens. And if you just put yourself in the context of wilderness and here's the funny thing, if it is wilderness, and I've noticed it with photography that you do know. In a sense, you don't have to worry where you're gonna put your foot because your foot's already been there before. So your mind can be more, attuned and more open to whatever else is in that place with you at that time. Now. having said that, I haven't been Ivory Lake and there's a hu there that Rob Brown bangs on about yeah. I always gotta tell you that, oh, Craig, you went there, you gotta go there. I'll listen to some of that'cause I don't wanna die having done repetition from now on. I do look and I see a photograph, this guy Ken Wright, who's photographing at present and he has photos on a thing called Instagram. And he finds this, creek with some rocks and some forest behind it. And I think hell, Ken, that was good. How do I get there? Yeah, I still had that in me. Both really, but more return rather than new.

Jonty: 31:19

I was gonna ask, obviously there's always photographs to take, but a certain point you must have. You've photographed everything in the bush, multiple times, multiple lights, multiple, weather conditions. There's still more to come or you've got a fairly comprehensive collection now.

Craig: 31:33

Early on I started writing native books on national parks both with Andy Dennison and then we'd do them individually, and, wrote them in and took the photographs too, and felt that I wanted a sort of comprehensive knowledge, if you wanna put it in that language, something that Liz Malloy and Jerry McSweeney have that the rest of us don't have, which is, what's up that valley? And they know the name of it and they know what bloody trees around the corner, and the rest of us just bumble along thinking, we're good to, tell it. one pot of cart from another, a Torah from a car, guttier or whatever. I'm just not gonna receive that amount of knowledge and the time. Here's one that I'm working on now. In the Targa Valley. There are these big Tora trees that have remained as sentinels in the middle of paddocks. So they're the other ancient ones, they're the ones that were there before we came in and went loony. And then in the Arri Valley, which is the one that flows towards Collingwood, so across the next range is the Valley. There are Kare tear trees. So I'm gonna photograph, 10 good ones, which might mean that I take several thousand photographs of 10 carers of their area and I'm gonna put them in an art gallery somewhere and people can ponder them, it's a cliche, comes outta the east. But it was there in the west too. If you go back before the Protestants got their work ethic going, just stopping and looking and just appreciating and understanding, when we speed up our lives to destroy space, to save time, we're not necessarily doing the right thing if we wanna be happy. And for me, I'll go with the Dalai Lama. The prime purpose of being in this world is to be happy. Of those 10 trees, I think that'll be 20 altogether, which is quite a lot, are gonna bring me a great deal of happiness and hopefully I can reflect that to others by shoving them in an art gallery. And they have to look because it's got Craig Putin's name at the bottom of them.

Speaker: 33:21

Thank you so much for listening to the Tramping life. If you've enjoyed today's episode, please follow the podcast in whatever app you use. Tell a friend about it and consider leaving a rating or a review. It really helps more people discover the show. you have any questions or feedback, I'd love to hear from you. Drop me an email at the tramping life, one word@gmail.com.