Speaker: 0:00

I felt so insignificant looking up at this beautiful peak that was getting shrouded and missed and really closing in really quick. And we've got a avalanche beacons on and it's all quite unnerving. But, that just. Feeds the addiction, that adrenaline that, you just feel. Kiro and welcome to the Tramping Life, a podcast about hiking in outro New Zealand, or as we call it here, tramping. I'm jt, and in each episode I chat with people who share passion for exploring this incredible country. We'll hear about the tracks they love, the huts they return to, the lessons they've learned, and what keeps them heading back into the bush.

Speaker 2: 0:41

My guest today is Jerry Van Lier, creator and host of the Roo Fever podcast. Jerry has a real passion for the teller Rangers one of New Zealand's most rugged, rewarding, and at times notorious tramping areas. Through his podcast, he shares stories of adventures, mishaps, and special character of the roos capturing what makes these hills such a beloved testing ground for Trampers. I'm delighted to welcome him to the podcast Kiro.

Speaker: 1:05

Jti, thank you so much for having me on the show.

Speaker 2: 1:07

Let's start with the start. Where did you grow up and what are your, some of your earliest memories of being outdoors?

Speaker: 1:13

I am a wellingtonian by heart, by trade, by everything. Actually Island Bay, more so than anything else where I grew up, my mom, my dad, my brother, however, ironically, my parents uh, lifelong I would say lifelong, members of the Heart Valley Tramping Club.

Speaker 2: 1:27

So when was your first tramp and what do you remember about it?

Speaker: 1:31

I can remember my first tramp quite clearly. There's a few photos, actually. I was six years old. And, my dad took myself and a friend of his also from the Heart Valley Tramping Club on a trip starting from, the coastline just, south of the EL Ranges. And we went around that coastline that wraps right round to, I think it's called the Moka Stream. Then we went up to Mooka Valley and up and over the southern saddle, right next to Mount Matthews and down the other side. We did it across two days. And I did that trip again, gosh, it must have been about 2017 with some friends, and I came back and said to my dad. You were mad taking a 6-year-old on that trip. That seems just completely nuts. But yeah, that was my first trip. Quite grateful for that. It was quite different to how I remembered it, actually doing it later on in life. But a great trip that I'd recommend to anyone,

Speaker 2: 2:23

especially at the age of six. I mean, Matthews, that's a. Pro age to summit?

Speaker: 2:27

Look, I, there, there's this one photo of us about to begin the trip and I looked at it again and I'm just a tiny toddler. It's just, I'm very clearly not at the age where I should be tramping yet. I think so. I like to give my dad a little bit of stick for that.

Speaker 2: 2:40

So was that the moment you fell in love with tramping or was there a moment a bit later on?

Speaker: 2:44

I think that, from there. It was probably mostly my dad taking my brother and I out on small trips as we were growing up. But there were lots of other little hobbies that we had. I've played football every year from the age of five years old, so I'm a massive footballer fanatical fan of the English Premier League and all that. So I've got lots of strings to my bows and stuff like that. But one thing that I always felt. I identified with was being a tramp even in my teenage years when I might not have engaged with it as much. I always appreciated that upbringing from my dad. And then it might have been more into my early twenties that I reengaged with tramping again, and possibly at that point really fell in love with it.

Speaker 2: 3:21

And the tramping, do you do it solo or was this with the groups? was there was a particular group of people that you went out with or you have a bit of a mixture about groups or solo tramping?

Speaker: 3:30

The way I go tramping is probably just with, friends. I actually tend not to go on solo trips. More so for just safety and my own. Perception of how I feel out there, by myself. It is always nice to have your alone time and stuff like that, but I think that, one of the, my dad gave me a, some specific sets of rules when we were growing up was to never go by yourself, always have another person. The only other rule is always put your jacket at the top of your pack for when the weather closes in. I just tend to be a bit binary about some of those things. But having said that, i'm still a member of the Hut Valley Tramping Club. I, pay my fees every year and I really, enjoy that club. However, I find that I can do my own trips, with my own preferences, probably more, or I wouldn't say better because, camping clubs have a lot of benefits from joining. But, I just prefer being the, master of my own destiny when it comes to camping trips, I think.

Speaker 2: 4:21

The demographic's a bit different. I've done a few talks to the the Hu Valley Tramping Club and I think maybe it's a generational thing. I really appreciate and they've done amazing stuff and there's so many people with such amazing experience, but it does feel, generational kind of divide

Speaker: 4:33

I certainly would agree. Back in the day when my parents were. Part of those, that club and other clubs and stuff like that. The done thing was join a tramping club if you wanted to go tramping. and with aging demographics and stuff like that, it's, there's slightly less common threads I guess there for me.

Speaker 2: 4:46

It's still hardcore though, like when I've read and seen some of the trips that they do, I'm like, if I'm still doing that when I'm at their age, I'll be very happy.

Speaker: 4:53

I couldn't agree more. And, you just touched on something there about the wealth of knowledge that they have, it's still worth keeping in touch with them. Some of my dad's friends who are part of the club as well, if I ever just need a little bit of information for a trip that I'm planning, they're always there and really great. Yeah, it's still very beneficial.

Speaker 2: 5:08

Do you tend to be the trip planner and instigator, or do you have friends who do all the research and you tag along with them?

Speaker: 5:14

Ah, that's a really good question. I think within my close circuit of friends who I go tramping with you will have heard a few of'em on the podcast on t fever by now. I dunno how they'll feel about me saying this, but I think possibly I am the instigator. I'm the one that might send the message saying. Hey bro, are you free on x, y, Z dates? I'm looking at the map at the moment and thinking of something a bit crazy. With the Heart Valley Tramping Club, I've done a bit in Nelson Lakes, which is a phenomenal area. I think I was about 14 or 15 when we had a club trip where we were going, in from Lake Roti and heading over the, Travis Saddle and down the West Saban River and out the other end. We got stifled though, going over the Travis saddle. Basically a massive buzzard came in and we had to go back. A person actually hurt themselves as well. They hurt their back. I can't remember. I think that person might've gotta chop it out. But, basically it was a trip where we. It came out the same way we came in. It wasn't quite a circuit, but that next summer, my dad was determined that we complete that trip, so we went back and did it again. Another trip that I've done in Nelson Lakes was again, part of the Heart Valley Tramping Club, where, we did Mount Cap led by, the great Murray Presland. Who's a part of the Heart Valleys. We didn't quite get to Summit Mount Cap, again because the weather turned. I just remember, we left Mount Cap at about 6:00 AM and by about 8:00 AM we were right on the mountain, the Moga and. I just looked up and I wouldn't say that Mount Cap is any more significant than any other. Mountain in that area. Mount Angeles, Mount Hopeless, Mount Travis is the highest. Compared to the, Southern Alps, et cetera, they're not super high. But I felt so insignificant looking up at this beautiful peak that was getting shrouded and missed and really closing in really quick. And we've got a avalanche beacons on and it's all quite unnerving. But, that just. Feeds the addiction, that adrenaline that, you just feel. One of the other awesome tramps that I've done, is for university when, I was doing biodiversity and ecology. We did have a field trip down to, Nelson Lakes and, gosh, it's the opposite side of Mount Roberts, and I'm forgetting that range. But, for our, case study, we had to climb to the top and we were taking samples of lichen and noting how that changed with altitude. So we took all this data and then we got back and we reported back to our supervisor and he said, go back and do it again tomorrow. And just note your difference in data. And I think I was the only one in the group that was absolutely stoked with that idea. cause you're climbing to about 1500, 2000 meters at that point. And gosh, that couldn't have been more appealing to me.

Speaker 2: 7:46

It's interesting, the first two trips you mentioned you had to turn back or change plans due to weather. So what's the closest you've come to disaster whilst tramping?

Speaker: 7:54

Gosh, I don't know if we've ever come close to a disaster. One of my closest friends, Kent and I, who do a lot of ing in the tunnel, arranges together. We've had to amend our plans a bunch of times. There was one time we were, heading along the Renata Ridge to Elder Hut. The wind was so strong. It was classic springtime. It was probably round about this time of year where it gets a bit warmer and those spring winds just, those norwes get really strong. And so we definitely had to change plans a little bit. We went back to Renata Hut and we stayed the night there and came down the Du Forks the next day. I've done the southern crossing in really ropey conditions before as well. We plotted on and went straight through. But coming up the beehives, at about nine o'clock in the morning, and having to duck down behind the little ledge next to the track to just to have a bit of respite, while just smashing a bit of scroggin in your mouth and a few lollies to keep going. That's been really ropey. I was on Outward Bound at about the age of 24. And we were climbing Mount Cullen. And one of the members of our group got hypothermia. On the verge of hypothermia, maybe I should say. I dunno if they actually were hypothetical at the time, but we did have a doctor in our group who identified it quite early and we were able to yeah, pivot. We, but we've just been setting up camps, so we were in a static environment. We weren't traveling at that point in time One thing that I am always really cautious of is just your layering and how you're wearing your gear. Your undergarments I think the person was quite hot, so they've taken off a lot of their layers of just wearing a t-shirt, but because you're so hot and you're not really feeling the cold as much, but even though it's freezing, you can actually, by nature of it, start going into a, quite a cold state without even realizing. Yeah, something to watch out for.

9:33

What is your favorite piece of tramping equipment?

Speaker: 9:36

I love my champion boots. My champion boots are my tractors. I I have a leather pair of scalpers from outdoor b wh they cost about 500 bucks, but I think they're worth every penny. And I prefer the leather. Because they're so durable. And. I think in the tunnel ranges particularly, you can end up doing quite a lot of river walking. So they're really strong in the, in the river. They get quite heavy and stuff. But I think, in contrast, and I'm no boot expert JTE, but I think the contrast to maybe a Gore-Tex, type boot where we're, it's nice and light, but it can rip a little bit more easy. I've found mainly the scarp is yeah, the number ones. Maybe not quite answering your question in terms of a piece of equipment that I use, that's one of my favorites. But I converted to A MSR Promise, a few years ago. It's got the gas bottle that you fill with, methylated spirits and, just in contrast to say the gas canners that you use and it's quite quick. You screw your gas canister onto your head and click and go and you basically got a flame in seconds. I was trying to think of, more environmentally friendly ways to tramp. And I thought that, changing the energy use that I use, converting away from gas into what could be arguably a more sustainable source in methylated spirits might be a way to go. I find it, a bit scary to use. It only burns at one, temperature and that's just bloody hot. Getting it going takes a little bit of, I wouldn't say faffing, but you've gotta be quite precise. You've gotta turn the knob and let a little bit of myths through, and then you light the thing and you've turned it off again, and then you light it burns hot for a wee while and then you can hear it and you've gotta turn it on again at a, certain moment. And the one problem that I really have with it, and I'd love anyone to help me with it is, once you're finished and you turn it off, if you need to turn it on again a couple minutes later because you've gotten to boil the water for after dinner or something like that, I wouldn't know how to get it going again. There's fuel in the line. I dunno if it's whether just turning the knob and lighting a flame next to it, but I've had it before where it's blown up in my face a little bit and I've, yeah. Scares the hell outta me. Being sustainable can come with the cost,

11:28

what are your favorite huts in the teller? Arranges and which are the ones that you, uh, never want to go back to again?

Speaker: 11:34

really good question. Tan Ridge has been suffering a little for quite some time, I think. And it's a hard one. I definitely get it. It's a really difficult one because it's quite isolated. So servicing that heart must be really difficult for dock. I think it got struck by lightning a while back maybe five, years ago maybe plus now. And so it had been under quite a lot of repair and it's not easy to repair, a hut in that, in that area. I think last time when I was there was a couple years ago with my partner and there was just a lot of black mold where I think, we had been getting in and stuff like that. There was also no water in the tank or the, no, sorry. I think actually the handle on the water tank had broken, so we couldn't access any fresh water, but there was a bucket full of more questionable water. I think all in all jti, my favorite types of huts are those Orange six bunkers, mid Wahe, pen Creek cow Creek, some of those really awesome ones in the bottom of a valley. They're quite romantic. They're a bit of a shack, but they're not too cold. They've always got a fireplace. Yeah, I really like those ones. Ong Hook is a very nice hut. I'm very impressed with that one. WWA has just had a really nice recent birthday, so that we were just there a couple weeks ago and that was in really nice condition. I've been there when it's been a bit sad. PUA Hut at TKI Forks is always a really convenient one for when you are going in on a Friday night or at night to get an early start the next morning. But again, we've been in Pua Hut. It's had quite a lot of rats around. Cooking on the bench and you see something crawling towards you and you turn around and it scurries off and it's always a bit like, oh. My dad's also had a rat chew through the bottom of his pack to his scroggin, once before, while he was sleeping. I dunno if I have a favorite one off the top of my head right now. Actually, I'll say Elder Hut right now. That is a fantastic hut. Just a four bunker, so you've probably gotta get there quite early. For those who are not familiar with the Elder Hut, it's on the Renata Ridge as it goes up to, um, Aston onto the Southern crossing. And yeah, no, that's a very romantic spot. It's got a great view. It looks right over wire Oo forks. You can't quite see Ka island in the distance or maybe you can on a really good day, but you've got cup a couple million the way. So yeah, no I'll say if I have to choose a favorite right now, I'll say elder.

13:43

Have you come across any major overcrowding issues in the roos?

Speaker: 13:47

Toda Flats is a classic one, I think, where it's so convenient for families to bring their young ones in or, if you're not from Wellington or you're a tourist and you want to get a little taste of the title ranges, it's not too hard to get in. I was talking to the hut warden there, Brett Gillies not long ago, and he said he had 50 maybe plus people on a long weekend who turn up there. And I think that's one of the reasons why they also made it a bookable hut now. One of the biggest pieces of advice when you're going out for a tramp and you're not necessarily familiar with the area, is really just get a good gauge on where you're heading to and what time you might be able to get there because, huts can fill up quick. It's first and first served most of the time, unless it's bookable. And so you always need a little bit of a contingency plan, otherwise. Kent and I were at Cow Creek quite a few years ago and it filled up really quick and we, we didn't have a spare tent with us at that point in time. And we managed to get a bunk. We were okay, but there were quite a lot of people who came afterwards. And the last people who did not have a tent, so they had to do a bit of horse trading to get a spot in someone else's, I think. So it's not the sort of situation that I wanna be in. I basically always bring a tent. Now I bring my NCR hub everywhere. One of the things is when you go out, you're pretty much guaranteed to always see other people. And that's great. I think it's fantastic that people, love getting out there so much. I think there's, more diversity now than there has been in the past. I spoke with a guy called Andy Caruthers, a while back, and, he's got a documentary on running the sk, which is, quite, it's got its own running culture now. Particularly for the SK event, which is the length of his hundred arranges. And, so it's not uncommon to see, runners out and when I stop and talk to'em if they ever wanna stop and talk to me, they often don't. I was heading out of Y to Ywa once and it was about, I was just on plateau and, there was a swimming coming through and she was running to Ong the hooker and out in one day. Yeah, I think the total ranges are as busy as they ever have been. I would say jte.

15:32

What's your thoughts on the accuracy of the signage in the tele rows?

Speaker: 15:37

One of the things that I think is hard for Doc and the doc signs is that, the total ranges can be particularly rugged. There's, so many steep up and ups and downs that it makes travel times quite variable depending on skill and ability and experience and stuff like that. So to actually nail down a sort of average time to stick on a sign is not easy. But having said that, sometimes you see a sign and it's just so blatantly wrong anyway, that you often see where people have etched into the sign saying absolutely wrong. This is a more realistic sort of timeframe and I always have a chuckle when I see something like that. If you ever see a timeframe that's two hours away or something like that, two hours is probably such a short timeframe that it's probably not realistic at all. Don't take me verbatim on this. Maybe it is two hours, but, I think particularly on those shorter timeframes, if docs listed it, it's probably less realistic. I think it's probably more three to four. And that's probably more common of what you'll see is 4, 3, 4, 5 hours away or something like that.

16:33

I had a terrifying experience a few years ago around the, uh, teller peak section. How have you found that and what other hairy parts are there in the, uh, ranges?

Speaker: 16:41

Look, there are some here raising points in the tunnel ranges. I think like you say on the way to Mong Hooker from Bridge Peak, I think it's after the ladder when you're when it's got the chains attached to the rock and you're going across there. I think that's more scarier than the ladder. I think you're alluding to that there. Gosh. Especially in something like quite wet weather or a lot of clag. Good grief. I don't know how people do it. I was in Ong o Hooka, it was two days after New Year's, 2023, and with my partner, and classic in the t arranges. At night, the weather can just absolutely go to pea soup or porridge. And it was so much clag and there was still people coming in. 10, 11 at night. And I don't know. They're more braver than I am. Jte all ignorance is bliss. I dunno if there's too much difference between the two, but I, I don't wanna do that sort of terrain and that sort of conditions. I just think you open yourself up for quite a lot of risk. But two other areas to note that I find possibly slightly more terrifying than Ong Hooker is, broken acts, pinnacles is, that's pretty steep. But for me, I think the Wna Pinnacles, between a and Ridge is I. Yeah, I had to stop with, my partner Lex, and I'm carrying about 20 kilos on my back at that point in time, maybe 22. You're lopsided anyway. And then you're trying to scurry down a ledge that's just too far down for you to actually get a good foothold. You're trying to hold onto a rock that's all loose. And you've got about, I don't know, I'm speculating here, but like maybe four or 500 meters down either side of you. And it's not for the fainthearted, is it? It's scary stuff. But look, this is why we keep going back.'cause once you've, scuffled over the waa pinnacles, which takes about 20 minutes to half an hour. The adrenaline's pumping, and I'm just having a blast. That's on the visor that I've gotten across. Okay.

18:23

I understand that your wife is expecting your first child very soon, so how do you think that's gonna impact trumping for you?

Speaker: 18:29

I just went to YYA couple of weeks ago with my friends, and they were calling it Jerry's Final Tramp. I think romantically I'd like to have them in the front pack by the age of 18 months, two years old, and doing something that's still manageable for all involved. Even if it's just the Port Hills here in Christchurch, I think that would be quite nice. Just going back to the fact that I'm a wellingtonian, abroad, so to speak. I think with creating my podcast, I've joked that it's definitely me overcompensating for not being able to, tramp in some of my favorite places in the tunnel of arranges, but, maybe having a newborn will be a really good excuse to start going and exploring, nature's doorstep, which we're so lucky to have here in Christchurch, in Arthur's past or, beyond.

19:07

How have you found the podcasting experience?

Speaker: 19:09

It's been really great getting to. Interview such wonderful people people who are passionate about the areas, that they focus on. I like to say that there's a lot of weird and wonderful people out there, and I like to embrace it all. Learning about, the bookable huts and why they're bookable to. I spoke with Celia Wade Brown a while back, and she had some really good insights about some of the native Flo and Fauna in there. I'm talking to the Outdoor Access Commission quite soon about, public access on private land, which is gonna be really interesting. And I think that the Tar Arranges are not without those sort of matters to consider there as well, particularly around Mount Reeves or I think out in the cap coast there's a few, areas where there's private land that allows trampers access. So having. Been in positions where, say, for the public access side of things where I have, scuffled across private land without permission in the past, makes me reflect actually what and how should we be, operating as trampers and doing that respectfully on private landowners land because somewhere like the VIN at the pose road end. It's a privilege, not a right for that farmer to allow us to keep going onto, that land and accessing there. So how can we do that in the most respectful way possible? Is an insight that I've learned recently and we'll try to put that co pop forward in the next episode.

20:21

What's in your tramping bucket list?

Speaker: 20:23

If we just focus on the total arranges for now. My map gazing, side of things. I've been looking at, the wine now are pinnacles lately, and they look, like from when I've been up at a rt and you can, and on a really nice day, looking across at the wine now pinnacles, they just look crazy, gnarly. And I think what I'd love to do is speak with someone who is gone up to, from the road end, and gone across, over done this or past done this, and then come around over the why now, pinnacles, I don't think I've spoken to anyone that's done that before, but I'm sure it must have been done, I also think that these are pipe dreams that I'd like to do from my Matt gazing. I think you said before that it's always way harder than we think it is from just looking at the map. That would be really cool. And so that would bring you back down onto cattle Ridge and you could drop down into roaring Stack from there. So a little bit of a circuit there like that. And another one that's been on my bucket list for Thet Arrangers for a very long time, and I signed up to the Hart Valley Treatment Club, to do a trip there, must have been about 2022 or 2021. Is Winch Cambridge. Because I don't look at that and it takes my breath away. It's again, looks like one of the steepest pinnacle ridges in the tunnel ranges. And I think it'll be fantastic to do. Unfortunately, that trick got canceled because, a massive storm came through and it just wasn't tenable. Elsewhere in New Zealand, I would love to go back to Nelson Lakes. I think Kahu National Park up to dragons teeth would be really cool. I think exploring more on Arthur's past and maybe down to Fjord would be really great. Unfortunately I'm probably really focused on the tunnel ranges still. I'm not over the trauma of leaving Wellington yet, so I'm still gonna struggle to let it go for a wee while. There's still, I haven't bagged every heart in the tunnel ranges, so there's probably still a few to bag, but like I said, I don't wanna bag them all'cause I wanna keep going back as well. Thank you so much for listening to the Tramping life. If you've enjoyed today's episode, please follow the podcast in whatever app you use. Tell a friend about it and consider leaving a rating or a review. It really helps more people discover the show. you have any questions or feedback, I'd love to hear from you. Drop me an email at the tramping life, one word@gmail.com.